Needed to keep HR under 156, but for some reason the mood struck to run a bit faster than planned as I have been running slow over the past few weeks. Felt good to get below 8min miles for the first time in awhile, but of course I should have followed the plan. Average HR at 160 for the run...still a higher than I used to be able to run at this pace, but not bad nonetheless.
Met Lucho today in person. It is always great to meet someone in after following their blog for awhile. Had the same experience with Brandon last year when we banged out a 10-mile Heil Loop. Spent a bunch of time talking about training and pacing. Got some great ideas for the next couple of months as I figured out whether Colfax is in my future. Step one was pretty clear...run more. This of course is always my problem as I constantly complain about not having the time with work, family, etc. However, Brandon, Lucho and GZ all make it work with multiple kids and jobs...so I just have to choose to make the miles happen. Step two, give MAF a real try. I have basically been doing this for the last couple of weeks after switching to HR-based training by following Brandon's lead. So now I really need to dial in the right HR. I had mentioned to Lucho yesterday that I through my LT was in the 160's. However I dug up my Boulder Center for Sports Medicine data and came up with the following; report states that my LT back in Sept of 08 was 174 not 172 for a pace between 7:19 down to 6:55 for supra-LT. The max HR listed on the report for VOMax is 182. So, the question is if this puts my MAF target HR closer to 150 rather than 145? I think I heard that MAF is between 25 and 30 beats less than LT? Lucho, what do you think? Step three, do two weeks of MAF with a 5 mile MAF test each week to check current fitness and then jump into a 4 week block of mainly MAF with some progression runs and maybe a bit of tempo. This all fits quite nicely into the current RW plan I am following.
More to come...easy MAF run today either at work or after work....
Stupid HIP is still bugging me a bit, bursitis I think. Not a long term-worry, just an annoyance.
Details here...
Week 36 (ending 06SEP2026) August 2026
1 week ago
9 comments:
I guess it all depends on whether or not you want to try the MAF method:)My LT is 178 (fit) and I run 140-150 HR.
Look at the graph and tell me what were your HRs and paces at:
0.9 mmol lactate
2.0 mmol
and can you see where the very first uptick of lactate happened (should be <.9 mmol)? Or did they list the baseline?
Point taken...
1.34 mmol was the first reading which was a 11:07 pace. The next reading jumped to 1.50 which was 10:21 pace, the third reading was 1.56 which was 9:41 followed by 1.81 which was 9:05 pace. He targeted my marathon pace between 8:34 (next reading after the 1.91/9:41) and 8:06 (2.06 and 2.48 mmol).
I don't understand this..."He targeted my marathon pace between 8:34 (next reading after the 1.91/9:41) and 8:06 (2.06 and 2.48 mmol)."
So you were 1.91 at 9:41 pace?
I would argue that your marathon pace was between 8:45 and 8:30 by lactate. Running a marathon at 2.48mmol isn't too realistic.
What were the HR's at 9:40 and 9:05 pace? I'm guessing ~140-150?.
At AeT 2.06 ~160-165?
HRs= 133 at 1.34, 137 at 1.50 pace, 141 at 1.56/9:41pace, 147 at 1.81/9:05pace, 156 at 2.06/8:34 and 163 at 2.48/8:06pace.
you are a human fitness calculator!
Experience proved you right as I started Denver in the low 8's with some sub-8's. This did not end up working out well as I was fairly done for the latter part of the marathon. I ended up finishing at 3:49 for a 8:45 pace.
http://cleerunningblog.blogspot.com/2008/11/de3nver-marathon-race-report.html
I wish everyone had tests like this, it basically makes MAF useless. With this data you can pin-point the metabolic shifts and run quite close to your most ideal intensities.
Looking at those numbers you want to realize that going beyond ~2.00 mmol (marathon effort) isn't going to help you too much right now. And the most valuable thing for you to do, because you want to run a marathon, is focus on lowering pace at 2.0mmol. This lactate level is quite moderate and you should be able to hold this effort for 26 miles. With that in mind- going out and cranking the intensity up to, say, 4.0mmol or higher is actually going to hurt your fitness at 2.0mmol. At 2.0 you are still balanced on burning fat and glycogen, but at 4.0 you're burning mostly glycogen which actually inhibits fat use the more you do it. Remember I was saying that there are world class 5k guys that run 100 miles a week and there are marathoners who run 100 miles per week. Neither one is good at the other because of their focus on intensity. The 5k runner doesn't have the metabolism to last 26.2 miles.
And I'm rambling now...
I would put your HR ranges for training at 135-145 with ONCE a week 'tempo' run at HR 150-160. But the goal of the tempo should be duration over intensity. Run ~40:00-50:00 steady at HR 150-160. Gradually increase the volume of that run not the intensity.
Excellent! Thanks for all of the help.
Maybe it is time for another test this winter/spring? I did an online survey for radiology administrators that paid about what a test costs...been trying to figure out what toy to buy with the extra coin.
Glad to see you are running again...and enjoying it!
You don't need a diagnostic test... at least the way a lab would do it! I think (know) there is a better protocol but you can't get it done unless you want to have Gordo Byrn do it. I can put you in contact with him if you're interested. Many times when I've had my diagnostic tests done I've just asked for the results with out the consultation. Almost all of the data collected will be interpreted by someone who has never trained for and run a solid marathon. The last one I had done was analyzed by an ex-speed skater... everything he told me was wrong.
Extra coin? Take a half day off of work every week and run more! All the gadgets and tests won't do nearly as much for you. That's probably unrealistic with a 'real' job though. Don't over think the numbers (it's my job to do that so I need too), the ones listed above are solid and will get you where you want to go. I would tell you to race a 10k this Spring instead. You can get all the numbers you need from that.
Maybe we can hook up for some runs soon?
Tim,
I may join you at Fairview next Saturday. I am game for runs whenever you hit the flatlands.
Thanks again for all of your help!
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